Danny's Men's Studies

Katy points out 1 Corinthians 11:11 as she looks for a woman's place, but if you read the verses around it (I'll skip the parts about hair and head covering):

For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.
1 Corinthians 11:9,10,11,12

Ultimately, we are all from God. That is, both man and woman are created by God, and each have their place in this world. However, it's clear from verses 9 and 10 that gender equality that Americans [and other developed nations] seek is, if anything, anti-biblical and destructive in the long term.

[On a slightly different tangent, it took a while of reading and thinking but I now agree with Vox Day that woman shouldn't get to vote and suffrage is among the top worst ideas in the history of mankind (and womankind, for that matter). If you want to discuss suffrage, go to VD's blog or email and have at it. I'm just giving him a free plug (grin).]

I had a strange dream this morning about me driving a car and someone else was added as a new rider and then realized that one of the regulars couldn't get on. And then I woke up and thought: that's the problem with church today: maximum capacity. We limit how God can work in His Body by fixating church into a building. It is not about flexible and ever growing Body of Christ but rather of managing space: not exceeding maximum capacity and how to deal with overflows. Modern churches love to own property so that it's easier to add on new buildings to expand. But once the maximum size is reached, then they resort to multiple services, even spreading it out for two days. Yet you have to wonder: why bother? Why repeat the same stuff over and over 2 or 6 times? Why not record it once and replay it (esp. when people are already sitting so far out of the main worship area that they have to watch a video feed in the first place)?

Church is not about space management nor time management. Nor is it about hub management: the church staff and members revolving around the pastor. It's about the Body of Christ. Christ is the one and only head of His Body (Colossians 1:18). Not the head elder and certainly not the "senior" pastor. In fact, Paul makes clear:

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
1 Corinthians 11:3

So, the head of every man is not your local elder, pastor, priest, minister or some other local church leader, but Jesus Christ Himself. The One and Only. [Where and how the elders/overseers fit into church is something I'm not sure of right now.]

Note that modern day [re?]interpretation of Martin Luther's "priesthood of all believers" is not Biblical at all: only men (fathers and husbands) are called to be priests of the household. This was true in the Old Testament and didn't change in the New Testament. In fact, 1 Corinthians 11 reaffirms the concept of "priesthood of all husbands/fathers."

Copyright 2006, DannyHSDad, All Rights Reserved.

Today, I was reading Proverbs 24 and noticed:

Fear the LORD and the king, my son,
and do not join with the rebellious,
for those two will send sudden destruction upon them,
and who knows what calamities they can bring?
Proverbs 24:21-22

So, what happens when the king and the LORD conflicts? Apparently that's the claim of the Founding Fathers of America. And the resulting calamity called American Revolution or is it the Great American Experiment, year 230th?

Copyright 2006, DannyHSDad, All Rights Reserved.

How many of you survived the church experience this weekend? Do you plan ahead and have everything in place the day before or do you run around like a chicken with its head cutoff getting everyone to church [where the only "quiet time" you have is during the sermon time]? Or something in between?

Or did you choose to not be part of the "church grind," in the first place, be it home church, shopping, sports or some other form of non-attendance?

It seems either one is "in" or "out" of "churchiness." Be it 100 member or 20,000 member church, one gets "in" a church with a fixed location [either a church owned property or leased property]. By being "out," one choose to not belong to any church at all!

So what is this churchiness that sucks you "in" [or spits others "out"]? As I have been thinking and blogging about church over the months, when my mother said "you need to attend church" it struck me that people are no longer worshiping God but has turned to worshiping the church: some singing, some droning and collecting money. And then, at some churches, we are asked to sneak in people we know through special ("seeker friendly") service or special events (illusionists, famous artists and athletes), as if God's truth needs to be watered down or twisted somehow.

What a contrast to the words in the New Testament. Jesus didn't go around asking His neighbors, "come hear xyz speak or perform." Instead, He commanded "come, follow me." And then before He left, He commanded His disciples to "make disciples of all nations" -- not herd or sneak others into "church." [I'm reminded of the stories like Philip (John 1:43-51) and Samaritan woman (John 4:28-30), but they all lead others to Christ, not "church."]

Jesus made clear what worship should be like:

Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." John 4:21-24

Both the Jews and Samaritans were fixated on where worship should take place. Just as Christians today are obsessed with the format of worship (what kind of songs, how long of sermon, how much physical space to take, etc.) rather than the spirit of worship.

Unfortunately, we are beholden and enslaved to the churchiness worship of today. Most churches take on debt to finance the purchase of land and building and spend years paying it back. All churches have to deal with: money (utilities, replacing stuff, etc.), time (upkeep of the stuff of church: building, furniture, equipment, tools, etc.) and energy (separating the noisy children (esp. infants) from the quiet service, recruiting, coordinating and training volunteers to watch over children). And then you've got wonder what the whole day was about running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

So, what can be done about all this? I believe it's matter of getting back to the roots of the Bible: worship God in spirit and truth, not through man-made trappings (really, woman-made since churchiness is ever so feminized today, including Jesus). Get rid of the burden of buildings and their overhead (maintenance, utilities, insurance, cleaning and repair). Keep it personal, one-on-one with God and direct relationships with fellow Christians. Mass meetings are special, focused and infrequent (something like Promise Keepers or Billy Graham's evangelical crusade). Accountability should be done through discipleship: local meeting of elders with heads of household rather than the trappings of churchiness. Young men are to be trained to become fathers, grandfathers and then elders. Fathers follow the footsteps of the grandfathers and elders, living by example (for their young men). [How to deal with our mobile, global society of today is an issue I don't have an answer for.]

The kind of church which is talked about in the Bible seems more appropriate in home like settings rather than 20,000 seat auditorium: Exact format is not easy to imagine since I'm so used to the normal churchiness. Stay tuned....

Copyright 2006, DannyHSDad, All Rights Reserved.

[I was hoping to publish this sooner but got distracted by moving, etc. but the thread at Vox's "Of Pastors and Programmers" made me want to finish it off.]

I attended our church's Men's Bible Study I mentioned before and it was a pleasant surprise to meet other men who are serious about becoming godly men and leaders in their homes. I'm more intent on raising godly men as well as bonding my father with my grandsons, but becoming godly is a good start, since to be able to say like Paul to my sons:

Follow my example as I follow the example of Christ. 1 Corinthians 11:1

I have to become godly myself! It was good to see other men with sons, some older and others younger than my sons. I'm hoping more will join, especially those with grown sons.

Anyway, we discussed many things but the important thing for me, when it comes to my calling is to be a king [provider and protector], priest [spiritual leader] and prophet [vision and planning for the legacy] of my own family, the gifts which God has given me to be responsible for.

We also talked about teenage boys/youngmen and how we should think about ways to redirect their budding sexual energy into productive yet busy activities, like going outdoors. One father mentioned how saying "no" and "no" to our sons won't help them. And then I mentioned how I've started boogie boarding with my sons and want to explore other "manly" activities for my sons, like backpacking or hunting, and want to find other fathers and sons to do likewise. Only time will tell but I'm hopeful...

Copyright 2006, DannyHSDad, All Rights Reserved.

Apparently there are many manly hotels that cater to men's interest, like hunting focused vacation: Guys on vacation equal Mancations. At what point would my sons be "man" enough to go on such vacation? I don't know.

Last week my sons and I started boogie boarding and we've done it three times so far and has been a blast. I hope to do so about once a week [whenever I visit my parents, like this weekend] and I hope to get into other manly pursuit, like backpacking and hunting over the next few months [or maybe next year]....

I was taught that:

But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 5:39

But today as I was reading "No More Christian Nice Guy" the author pointed out:

When Jesus said this, one of the officials nearby struck him in the face. "Is this the way you answer the high priest?" he demanded. "If I said something wrong," Jesus replied, "testify as to what is wrong. But if I spoke the truth, why did you strike me?" John 18:22,23

I've read this over many times and was even vaguely aware of the paradox, but here is a quite a contrast between "turning the other cheek" and Jesus "talking back" to His accusers. Jesus was obviously not a Nice Guy. What was He thinking? I've heard many explanations of what Matthew 5:38-48 really means [both pro-war and anti-war] but today I'm not sure how to take it.

Copyright 2006, DannyHSDad, All Rights Reserved.

I found "Fundamentalists to the Right, Fundamentalists to the Left: What my hate mail tells me about Christian factions today" to be a good read on what happened to Fanky Schaeffer [son of Dr. Francis Schaeffer]. I did enjoy his first novel and several of his non-fiction. But I was surprised to find out today that he converted from Christian "Fundamentalism" to Greek Orthodox.

But then I have gone through complex changes myself. I thought Fundamentalism was a clearer view of the Bible but the non-denominational type I became familiar with isn't as Biblical as I am thinking now. Granted, there is no perfect church but churches have lost their way without realizing it, especially with the modern feminized Christianity (after I pointed out that Jesus become feminized in 1800s, my friend pointed out Jesus' long hair and dress: how feminine!). Reading "Why Men Hate Going to Church" and now "No More Christian Nice Guy" I'm realizing how brainwashed I had become with what is a normal Bible church: it isn't about "worship experience" [music and other fluff] nor the Bible based preaching [a good preacher who speaks clearly, with good voice and intelligent presentation]. More on this tomorrow [I hope]....

Copyright 2006, DannyHSDad, All Rights Reserved.

My wife and I talked about a Christian woman we met and mentioned how she seemed very critical and hard to please. And then I mentioned: that's why women should not be part of a church. [Ha Ha]

In all seriousness, because women were cursed to be controlling [Genesis 3:16], when women get involved with church, they try to control what's going on, even if the church does not allow women leaders. I've seen too many changes take place in a church because of a few unhappy women who got their way(s). I know this first hand, because my mother tries to be controlling and manipulative with me.

As Dr. Schaeffer pointed out in his books, people want "Peace and happiness" and I think this is a very feminine, mothering instinct. Woman wants to control her world to bring stability and reduce conflict. Men want vision, purpose and adventure instead: instability and conflicts are all part of the adventure. Which is why Jesus was able to call out to some two bit fishermen "Come and follow me. And I will make you fishers of men." Jesus even delivered instability [Matthew 8:20] and conflicts [Matthew 12:34 or 21:12, Luke 14:26] throughout His ministry.

So, do women belong in the church? Of course, since Galatians 3:28 makes clear that before God, male and female are equal. But 1 Corinthians 14:34 states that women are to be silent during church service. Also, 1 Timothy 5:2 and Titus 2:3 teach women to not use words to hurt [and, I believe, to manipulate, to get things done indirectly].

However, I don't know of any church that can avoid the velvet veto [Carl Dudley term for women manipulators in church, as quoted in "Why Men Hate Going to Church"] and as long as they are involved in the church, "Men sit on boards, but women run the church." Which not only turns off men but is unbiblical as well [cf 1 Corinthians 14:34].

Copyright 2006, DannyHSDad, All Rights Reserved.
--

I had a lot of interesting conversation with a Christian father who has several sons and I've mentioned various beefs I've had blogged about and he encouraged me to run with my ideas at their church. We'll see: I'll try to attend the next men's Bible study and see what happens....

"Researchers identify "male warrior effect": Men may have developed a psychology that makes them particularly able to engage in wars, a scientist said on Friday."

Here's an interesting research result:

In experiments with 300 university men and women students, Van Vugt and his team gave the volunteers small sums of money which they could either keep or invest in a common fund that would be doubled and equally divided. None of the students knew what the others were doing.

Both sexes cooperated in investing in the fund. But when the groups were told they were competing against other universities, the males were more eager to invest rather than keep their money while the number of women contributing remained the same.

[...] "Male co-operation is a double-edged sword," he added.

I'm in the middle of reading "No more Christian Nice Guy" and this article is very relevant. Men and women are different. And it's no surprise that there are lots of war and war imagery in the Bible both Old and New Testament [Revelation is full of wars and rumors of wars]. And I like how the author points out that Jesus was feminized in the 19th century: a rather modern problem.

Copyright 2006, DannyHSDad, All Rights Reserved.

Here's something I noticed just today that I must have skipped over before:

"Be careful," Jesus warned them. "Watch out for the yeast of the Pharisees and that of Herod." Mark 8:15

It's usually "Pharisees and Sadducees" [Matthew 16:6] but here Jesus uses "of Herod." So one should watch out for not just religious leaders but also political ones, too. Jesus was against man-made religion as well as man-made political structure(s). We are to be "in the world" but not "of the world" [cf John 17]. And to be bound to no man, religious, political or anything else man-made.

Copyright 2006, DannyHSDad, All Rights Reserved.

I was originally going to call this "Upside Down Church: and how to turn it over" but Daniel's blog entry "Abortion and the State or the Church?" made me question "what has the church become?"

The church, over the years, has pushed public schooling, prohibition (alcohol first and now "recreational" drugs) and welfare into government programs. And the resulting misery caused by all the above: schooling turning out factory workers, prohibition resulting in mobster/gang/police/prison empowerment, and welfare resulting in permanent poverty and sense of entitlement (I'd lump Social Security into welfare, along with temporary welfare like money given out to 9/11 and Katrina "victims"). And with the marriage being debated over (gay vs "straight" marriage and what it all means), the government will have more say in how marriage should be.

The trends are clear: what God's people should have handled on their own, they've given up to the government to take over and regulate and pass judgement. Jesus was clear on this:

Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. Matthew 5:25.

Be it differences in money problem or how one should live (drinking, marriage, financial hardship, raising up children), these problems should have been taken care of under the eldership of a local church. Instead, the church has neutered itself by turning to the State rather than to the men of the church. [The chicken and the egg problem of men leaving the church vs the need to turn to government isn't clear to me.] It doesn't help that the community of men which still exists do not seem to have impressive records.

We not only have the problem of modern church giving up powers but also men staying away from church in droves. It seems to me that the problem is not so much with the Gospel message nor the Bible but the modern church itself. Modern church has become synonymous with an institution rather than the living Body of Christ. The word itself conjures up images [at least for me] of buildings more than a dynamically working group of people.

Rather than the modern church being an alternative reality to the world [a replacement for what the world provides], it has become an handmaiden or "suitable helper" of the world and the government(s). A religious or spiritual part of the world. Or a "sacred" component of the world. A bit player in the bigger scheme of things.

Consider what Jesus said, instead:

The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. John 10:10

and

Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me." John 18:37

Jesus Christ lived a parallel life from the world: He engaged with the people of the world but did not clash with the government [unlike the Zealots] nor submit meekly. As Coughlin points out, when Jesus rose from the dead, He rebelled against the government by breaking the seal and His angels stuck down the soldiers [both were federal, capital offense]. Even before He was crucified, He was defiant to the end: didn't answer most questions, and what He did answer, He explained that He was in real control [like the quote above from John 18].

If the modern church isn't exhibiting the kind of behavior that Christ lived, maybe the church has become the false teacher that Jesus warned about and has become, in fact, the anti-Christ herself, using the name of Christ while being anything but Christ-like? Jesus warned us:

For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. Matthew 24:24

And if the following is a warning sign:

At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:10,11

Then maybe the modern church has become the very thing Jesus warned us about, after all....

Copyright 2006, DannyHSDad, All Rights Reserved.

"Sexual Abuse in the Amish Community: Woman Endured Childhood of Repeated Rape by Her Brothers"

A supposedly men lead "Christian" community has gone wrong when a woman has to turn to the government to right the wrongs in her home: incest by her brothers against her and her younger sister. The community punished her brothers with 6 weeks of banishment from church activities, and restored as they were "very, very sorry."

Leviticus 18 is quite clear: incest is wrong and the perpetrator is to be "cut off" from the community. To give a slap on the wrist for one incest let alone many times, something has gone very wrong with the community.

It's one thing to forgive but it's another to suffer the consequences for one's wrong. A thief must make restitution (biblically). A rapist, today, would spend time in jail (although that doesn't seem like a fitting punishment, biblically). Merely forgiving and moving on doesn't sound biblical at all.

Seeing the ABC story above makes the Amish community appear wrong not just from modern perspective but biblical as well. A true Christian community of men would have to do one better than what the modern world has to offer.

Copyright 2006, DannyHSDad, All Rights Reserved.